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Thread: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)


    
  1. #11
    Banned
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    The LOP happens when a country has runaway inflation and a floundering economy with few prospects...

    NOT when they have a the fastest growing economy in the world with a reasonable inflation rate.



  2. #12
    In matters like this it usually helps to use the "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) approach.

    Okay here's simple:
    Q1: How was the dinar devalued to it's current position?
    A1: The money supply in circulation was increased from billions to trillions (addition of zeroes).

    Q2: How will the dinar return back to it's old value?
    A2: The money supply in circulation will be decreased from trillions to billions (deletion of zeroes or "LOP").

    Dr. Shabibi has CLEARLY stated this over and over again.

    "Delete the zeroes" clearly means EXACTLY what it says. Here let me say it again real slow...DELETE THE ZEROES. Get it?

    Using undeveloped raw natural resources as the basis of justification to twist and spin the facts to support the wild idea of overnight wealth in Iraq at the flip of some switch is utterly and totally ludicrous. It doesn't work like that in the rest of the world and it won't work that way in Iraq. SIMPLE.

    And yes for those who are wondering, the new 25 dinar note WILL coexist side by side with the old 25,000 dinar note for a period of time and they WILL have the SAME VALUE which is 25 dinars. This also is EXACTLY what Dr. Shabibi has stated over and over again.

    None of this requires umpteen gazillion gurus to spin and retranslate for you to understand it. It's VERY SIMPLE STUFF!

    And before any of the pumper gurus try to spin night into day and come back and say I'm pumping because I say a LOP WILL HAPPEN...let me be VERY clear and dispel that bogus argument right now by saying that my advice to anyone considering speculating on dinar would be DON'T! Now who's pumping who?

  3. #13
    I read this below..and its sounds VERY logical, any thoughts on this

    -11-2012 20MillionDinar (Dinar Vets): **Iraq M2 of 70 Trillion** I then compare the 70 trillion to a 1:1 RV which would equal 70 Trillion USD. M3 Money Supply for Selected Countries: When considering M3, the total money supply (of the world) exceeds US$50.1 trillion! Of this amount, the U.S., Euro-Zone and Japan account for US$33.1 trillion or 66.2% of the total. The following graph shows a cross-country comparison for M3. What I am wondering is how does Iraq, a war torn country, come out of the gate with a newly revalued currency which now equals more than every other country combined? Iraq's currency would now be worth twice of that of the USA, the Eurozone, as well as Japan combined! Even if Iraq has HALF of the stated money supply, it would make Iraq equal to the Eurozone, the USA, and Japan combined. This is where I find it hard to believe that an overnight 1:1 RV is possible. Even $.10 is pushing it. However, I do feel that a gradual increase in the IQD is possible! This way they could slowly reduce the amount in circulation while increasing the value of each existing currency unit in circulation. Increase oil exports, build up infrastructure, promote growth in the private sector, which will all help to build their countries' overall GDP. This is how a currency gains value in the real world. If Iraq is worth 70 Billion but has 30 Trillion (M1) Dinar in circulation. They could keep that same value ($70 Billion) but make each existing currency unit (IQD) worth more by reducing the overall amount. However, the decrease in currency in circulation needs to be gradual, as well as the increase in the value of the IQD. The reason it needs to be gradual / controlled is so that they maintain inflation. Keeping inflation under control has been one of their biggest priorities during the past 9 years or so, I don't think they want to destroy everything they've worked for just to have a high valued currency overnight. Actually, keeping inflation under control is EVERY CENTRAL BANK'S main priority! Something to think about, Japan's total M2 money supply is equal to 6 Trillion USD. Iraq's total M2 Money supply is 70 Trillion IQD equal to 70 Billion USD. A $0.10 straight up RV of the IQD would make Iraq's total currency more valuable than Japan! Overnight!!

  4. #14
    Aypb, exactly, you get it, and you explained it all with very good sound reasoning in simple terms that anyone can understand. You won't see a no-lop theorist do that. They have to use hocus pocus to fill the voids in their reasoning like Iraq is the richest country in the world because of all their natural resources...yada yada yada...

    Let's apply that math as if it were true for a second:

    Q1: Did the USD suddenly gain in value when the Balken Oil Field was discovered just a few years ago?
    A1: NO!

    Q1: Somalia has lots and lots of diamonds, is it a wealthy country or does it have a valuable currency?
    A2: Umm NO and NO! Actually they're a lot like Iraq, lots of fighting and an unstable government.

  5. #15

    Re: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)

    This entire thread is worth a revisit, especially for those who have been led to believe a countries undeveloped natural resources can be used to support the value of its currency.
    Take the huge swing in oil price during the past year for example. It's now worth about 30% what it was a year ago. Can you not understand the calamity it would cause if Iraq's currency were valued on undeveloped oil reserves? Of course you can. That is why undeveloped natural resource reserves have never and will never be used by any country with an internationally traded currency as a means to set the value. Imagine having $100 dollars in your wallet, the price of oil suddenly drops 65%, you open your wallet and find $35 instead of $100. Still think undeveloped natural resources are used to set currency value? Maybe in the land of fairy tales but not on planet earth.

  6. #16

    Re: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueyesinLevis View Post
    Enorste on the LOP
    ______________________
    Enorrste Response to Lopster

    The article below is based entirely on a false premise. Once it is shown that the premise is false then the remainder of the content of the article fails as well.

    The premise of the article is that the money supply, M2, which is now said to be 70 trillion dinars, will remain at that same level. I will not dispute the M2 number but will state clearly that the CBI is on record that the currency now in circulation (i.e., physical currency) is about 30 trillion dinars. This is a direct statement from the CBI. They have made this statement to indicate that it is way too high. Furthermore, in the same articles that have this statement there is another statement which is that the goal is to REDUCE the money supply in Iraq to about 25 billion dinars. It blows my mind that the writer of this article fails to take into account the very statements of the CBI that deal with this specific issue.

    Furthermore, the CBI is on record on this matter and has been since 2007! When I wrote my book I included an article from 2007 in which Al Zubaidi, the head of the Ministry of Finance at that time, had recommended to Shabibi, head of the CBI, that the money supply be reduced from the then 25 trillion dinars to about 25 billion dinars "as it was before the Saddam Hussein regime." In that same article he recommended that the dinar RETURN to the value of $3.33 per dinar that it held prior to the Saddam Hussein regime. Again, as noted in my book, Shabibi accepted that recommendation and a 5 year plan was created to implement it.

    Because of the election the timing has been delayed somewhat, but the plan is still being implemented. More recent articles explain clearly that the goal is now to bring the dinar initially to "about $1", after which it will rise gradually to the level of equilibrium, which will be over $3.00. Furthermore, the process will include REDUCING the current money supply to 25 billion dinars to affect this change. This is in CBI articles, not "guru-speak." All of this can be found on DinarAlert.webs.com.

    The question then becomes as follows: how will they reduce the money supply? The answer is the "remove the three zeros" project! During the last year the large denominated notes have been gradually withdrawn from the market and are being stored at the CBI for eventual destruction. The reason for the "dollarization" that is evident in the country is because there are fewer and fewer dinars available to the general public. Even banks can no longer obtain new larger denominated notes in Iraq (there is an article stating this point, incidentally).

    At the time of the $1 RV most of the large notes will have been pulled in. Shabibi is on record that as of last year already over 50% of them were removed, and at the beginning of this year it was over 75% removed. The CBI has stated that now "all preparations" for the implementation of the issuance of the small denoms is now complete. They are ready to raise the value of the IQD to about $1.

    At the time that they do this they will issue the EXISTING small denominated IQD that was printed in 2003 and has been held in vaults since that time at the CBI. AT THE SAME TIME they will begin destroying the large denominated notes. Between the RV date and the end of this year most of the remaining large notes will be deposited in banks, since they will be worth $5,000 to $25,000 each (!) and they will also be sent to the CBI to be destroyed.

    In January 2013 the NEW CURRENCY will be issued with 3 languages. The EXISTING CURRENCY (now almost all small notes entirely) and the NEW CURRENCY will COEXIST until the middle of 2014, after which all of the EXISTING CURRENCY will be withdrawn as it wears out, leaving only the NEW CURRENCY in Iraq. The plan is to print only 25 Billion NEW dinars!

    The PROCESS of "removing the three zeros" will reduce the money supply to 25 billion dinars. This is NOT guru magic. It is a clear statement of the intent of the CBI.

    Now, with $63 billion in reserves currently, and with a projected money supply post RV of 25 billion dinars at about $1 each, then the total money supply will equal about $25 billion. This means that Iraq will have almost 250% coverage of their money! This will make the dinar the strongest currency in the world, by far.

    Finally, it must be asked what will happen to the 5 to 7 trillion dinars that are outside of Iraq. The CBI has clearly stated that this money will become a "world reserve currency" for "a long time", quoting Saleh himself (all of these articles are on the web site and have been discussed thoroughly by Kap, Russell, and myself on numerous conference calls). Therefore, they will NOT be included in the "effective" money supply in Iraq, any more than the Dollar is counted as it sits in reserves all around the world.

    The writer of the article I am discussing is obviously well intentioned, but also ill informed. Had he done his due diligence and read all of the abundantly available information directly from the CBI he would have been educated on the "remove the three zeros" project enough to know that it is NOT A LOP and that it is clearly an RV at "about $1" just as the CBI has been saying for over a year now.

    The EXISTING CURRENCY will remain legal tender, per the CBI, throughout this process. This means that we will be able to cash in at the $1 rate at least through the middle of 2014. Again, this is directly from the CBI.

    While I appreciate that the "lopster" writer wants to educate, I believe that it is incumbent for him to educate himself before he tries to educate others. By spreading the drivel that he has, he not only shows himself to be ignorant of the facts but also does no service whatsoever to those who read his drivel. This comment is not a "put down" on the writer personally. It is only a total TRASHING of the content of his writing. I do not attack persons; I attack fallacious content. Ignorance is not a pejorative term: it simply means that he is not well informed.

    Enorrste
    How amusing is it that absolutely none of the stuff said in response by these "guru know-it-alls" to discount the original posters comments has come even remotely true? Talk about drivel and b.s.!

  7. #17

    Re: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)

    interesting but highly suspect based on sovereign need and established articles. Really makes no sense in the big picture.
    A lot of issues not taken into account....no cigar on this one.

  8. #18

    Re: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)

    kblp,
    Hey I just wanted to say thank you for helping us "keep it simple" because as you already know, we have no idea what anybody is talking about. Just one question, is there some simple reason that you are a member of a dinar news website if you truly believe that your understanding of this event is the only logical reasoning out there? If you are just doing your duty to protect us then I say thank you again. You are truly a noble and righteous individual. Maybe it's time to move on and visit some cancer forums and tell those people why believing in healing and trusting in a Higher power is not a logical way to beat cancer. I'm sure those people need your help too...

  9. #19

    Re: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by natenate View Post
    kblp,
    Hey I just wanted to say thank you for helping us "keep it simple" because as you already know, we have no idea what anybody is talking about. Just one question, is there some simple reason that you are a member of a dinar news website if you truly believe that your understanding of this event is the only logical reasoning out there? If you are just doing your duty to protect us then I say thank you again. You are truly a noble and righteous individual. Maybe it's time to move on and visit some cancer forums and tell those people why believing in healing and trusting in a Higher power is not a logical way to beat cancer. I'm sure those people need your help too...
    My comments fit the title of this forum "Questions, Discussion, Rumors, Other Misc", as well as any. They may not appeal to everyone but on the flip side there may be some wanting exposure to comments other than those presented and read through rose colored glasses.

    Cancer forums and cancer patients? Is that what this is about because I thought it was about an investment. Are you here for an investment or for believing in healing and trusting in a higher power? Don't like the topic of this thread? Why not consider starting one of your own about a topic tailored to your tastes? Maybe it would be less self rewarding than attempting to derail this one while expressing false gratitude as cover and the veiled suggestion to leave? Who knows?

    As I was saying before the emotional outburst of discontent from the cheer section...this thread is quite possibly worth a re-read for some who might find it helpful to look back at previous statements and opinion pieces as it may be helpful to them in forming some of their own opinions.

  10. #20

    Re: Personal Opinion on RV/Removing Zeroes (PART 2 OF 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by foxrun View Post
    interesting but highly suspect based on sovereign need and established articles. Really makes no sense in the big picture.
    A lot of issues not taken into account....no cigar on this one.
    These suspicions you mention are based on sovereign need and established articles? How does sovereign need make anything unlikely or true for that matter? Just because something is needed doesn't make it factual. Established articles?...would you be talking about any of the established articles put out by the GOI or CBI or Iraqi news agencies which all have high instances of contradicting themselves? Or are you talking about "guru articles" which tend to be even less reliable than the aforementioned?
    Specifically which of these numerous issues you mention not being taken into account have any basis in reality and impact what's being talked about here? Care to elaborate on that enough to give it real and relative meaning? Until such time you are correct...no cigar.

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